AMD Zen - 14nm, 8 Kerne, 95W TDP & DDR4?

[Hübie]

C&P von meinem Beitrag aus dem 3DC, da dort keine richtige Antwort kommt:

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/8076870
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/8076878

Da nicht jeder bei Planet mitliest. Danke bomby
Neue AMD Corporation Diesel vom 29.09.

Was war da zu sehen? Pünktchen vom Bench? Wie waren hoch waren die und wie scored ein Konkurrenzprodukt??

[BoMbY]

WCCFtech hat ein Bild:



Der Artikel ist aber BS, weil er glaubt die L3-Cache-Werte die da angezeigt würden stimmen.

[Hübie]

Halbes Gigabyte xD Na ja manchmal verliert man wohl den Fokus wenn man sich erst mal "hinein spekuliert". Genau deswegen will ich nicht immer überall draufklicken. Gerade bei wtf-tech...
Dankeschön.

[Atombossler]

WCCFtech hats über crypto in ZEN:

AMD Zen features SME (Secure Memory Encryption), SEV (Secure Encrypted Virtualization) and hardware based SHA powered by a security co-processor

[Onkel_Dithmeyer]

Da sind die aber spät dran

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...n-3315469.html

[BoMbY]

Nein, Heise war spät dran.

[Onkel_Dithmeyer]

Hier das Whitepaper dazu:

https://t.co/qicyzblJGC

[stolperstein]

Erste AM4 CPUs sind bei Geizhals gelistet.

- http://geizhals.eu/?fs=amd+am4


Viele Grüße,
stolpi

[MacroWelle]

Interessant, aber falscher Thread. Das sind Bristol Ridge, keine Zen.

[w0mbat]

http://www.blenchmark.com/cpu-benchmarks

Ganz ansehnlich.

[Opteron]

http://www.blenchmark.com/cpu-benchmarks

Ganz ansehnlich.

Ja aber nur wieder Blender, das hatten wir ja schon diskutiert.

Leider sind die Sysinfos sehr dünn:

Submitted by Blender on Thu, 08/25/2016 - 13:45
AMD Engineering Sample

Operating System:

Windows 2008ServerR2 64bit


Blender Version:

2.77a


Render Time:

0:01:09


Type:

CPU


Addon Version:

1.0.5

[Sightus]

Öhm, Server 2008R2 aka "Server-Windows 7"....also laufen die doch!? Microsoft erklärt mir immer, dass die kommenden CPUs von Intel und AMD eben nicht mehr unter Windows 7 laufen würden.

[Onkel_Dithmeyer]

Nenenenene! Laufen tut das alles wunderbar! Aber es wird von Microsoft kein Support angeboten. Das heißt, dass Windows neue Funktionen der CPUs nicht von sich herrraus unterstützen wird. Das werden die Hersteller dann eben übernehmen auf Treiberbasis.

[cyrusNGC_224]

Auch schön wie der Benchmark unter Linux nochmal über 20% zulegt: http://www.blenchmark.com/device-det...0%40%202.20GHz
Aber wie im 3dcenter wäre ich da allgemein sehr skeptisch. Weil auch an sich fast gleiche Intel CPUs unterschiedlich gut gelistet werden usw.
Und da es wirklich nur Blender Benches von ZEN und nichts anderes, muss man da einfach abwarten und nicht zu viel erwarten. Ich glaube einfach nicht, dass AMD die Energieeffizienz von Intels aktuellen CPUs erreichen oder gar übertreffen wird, wie manch einer anhand der Blenderwerte orakelt.

Langsam sollten doch auch mal andere Werte durchsickern.

[Atombossler]

Da es bisher noch keiner thematisiert hat:

Summit Ridge mit OC Selectors Ed.?

AMD Zen Based Summit Ridge Processor Family To Have Dedicated Overclocking Variants

These special, enthusiast-grade chips would ensure high OC margins but also ship with higher frequencies compared to standard 95W variants. The TDP would remain at 95W for the higher clocked variants given that these are cherry picked.

Na, mal sehen was da dran ist ...

[WindHund]

@Atombossler
Danke, schaut gut aus!
Es gibt also normale 95W und 95W Selektiert mit höherem Standard Taktfrequenzen.
Der Ansatz ist neu, da scheint sehr viel mit neuen Messmethoden sichtbar zu sein.

[Complicated]

Inwiefern unterscheidet sich das zum derzeitigen verfahren?
Ist das nicht exakt das selbe worin sich A10 7850K und 7870K unterscheiden?

[cyrusNGC_224]

Ich dachte auch, das würde bisher so gehandhabt.

[BoMbY]

Hier behauptet einer jede Menge über Zen zu wissen. Ich fasse das mal hier zusammen, falls es verschwindet:

Spoiler

Apologies if there's another thread about AMD's upcoming CPU architecture and of course desktop CPUs, if there is, delete or perhaps merge this info.
This is the current state of the retail CPUs, which have been improving by the month.

- There are some errata issues present in the current testing samples, similar in a way to the TLB bug of the Phenom. The workaround right now is done via the BIOS. The workaround however, strips around 30 ~ 40% of the CPU performance.

- The CPUs are well behind schedule and every day there's real progress and bug fixing being done. Unlike with INTEL's E0 CPUs which make it to the wild that are almost completely final silicon. AMD's samples will continue to get bug fixes right up until retail spec sampling to partners.

- In August Clock speeds were 3.8GHz, right now 4.2GHz overclocking is possible, with LN2 5GHz is doable. Again this will change of course, but it is just the current silicon that is behaving like this.

- AM4/ZEN uses an SOC design, that means even CMOS/BIOS configuration is on package (not necessarily on silicon, I can't confirm this) so it is possible to clear the "BIOS" and still have old value applied 30 minutes later. How this will be addressed remains to be seen. Perhaps it won't be the same scenario for final silicon

- Operating voltages (nominal) are 1.3v and all the way up to 1.5v should be fine it seems for AIO cooling. Frequency scaling isn't a strong point but again that may have everything to do with the process at this point rather than an inherent design limitation.

- Performance is particularly strong at this point vs. INTEL's latest offerings. Single thread performance is matching Haswell-E and of course multi-threading performance as well. Tests that are memory bandwidth dependent may go to the INTEL platform simply as a result of having more memory channels, but I can't confirm that right now and have no info on that. The important thing here is that the 16Thread/8-Core CPU is minimum 5960X performance if not better actually. (Based on Cinebench R15) with the error fix disabled.

- Can't speak to how well the IMC is working as current samples are locked to low DRAM frequencies (2133MHz and lower) and of course this has an impact on performance.

- As stated in the beginning, every week is progress and AMD is working at an unprecedented rate to get these ready by March.

- You're unlikely to see any high end boards for the CPUs prior to launch or at launch, simply because no vendors can commit to too much right now as plenty is changing at a rapid rate.

---

No idea on any pricing yet, but from board vendor side, Highest SKU is Less than $700USD.
March is the target time for the CPUs. I don't suspect 1st generation boards will be all that great though.

We finally have native/chipset NVme, PCI-E 3.0 + USB 3.1 with a number of lanes for each.
This one is shaping up well, and a definite contender for INTEL and AMD users alike.

That Cinebench R15 MT score
6900K @ 5.1GHz 2,100~
8C/16T ZEN @ 5.1GHz 2,000 (workaround disabled)

---

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. IPC right now is unlikely to go up
However be advised that while it can match Haswell-E for sure, it doesn't match Broadwell-E. If you are not aware, a 6900K @ 4GHz is about the same as a 5960X @ 4.5GHz. The difference in IPC is more than one would think oddly enough.

As for TDP, INTEL measures TDP entirely differently from AMD. AMD never measures max power draw or instantaneous power draw while INTEL does. It's is a lot more complicated than this but suffice to say they aren't directly comparable and of course this stands to reason because operating voltage for the the CPUs right now is 1.3V vs. Intel's 1.2v or so for a higher clock speed and a denser CPU.

Catching up to the leader is a simpler task than charting new ground and pushing the frontier. AMD has the road map laid out for it and the advantage of not having had to pioneer an architecture to match an untested node or process. That work has already been done by others and and if you look at tri-gate fabrication processes, they are so much better than they were when we first got them at 22nm.
Single thread performance still matters if only for the low power states and what options it allows you for power gating the CPU. Not necessarily the power it gives you at full tilt.

The cadence that INTEL uses for platform development even right now, puts them quite ahead even though they've not been necessarily focused on improving performance per say, but rather performance per watt, much like NVIDIA. The Kaby Lake is the Oregon dev team I think, while Skylake-X and Cannonlake should be the Israeli team. (could have the swapped) Point is Skylake-X platforms for instance, only due Q4 2017 are already available at all the vendors with CPUs at a later development stage than Zen is at present.

Either way, 2017 is going to be exciting for AMD and us of course. New GPUs and new platforms that bring AMD right up to modern computing performance. Pricing is not going to be cheap because if you have a comparable part, you price it accordingly. So yeah for high end look to $700 or so

---

Huge news and an update coming up soon.
Just spent a portion of the day with.... and yeah I'm worried, but extremely excited as well. Have some SKU numbers as well...

We are in for a revolution people.
Single core performance is strong, yep, it is very strong. As for price... heheheh
All I can say is INTEL isn't panicking, but they should be. Yes they should be

---

Those that go back to Planet Mars days, when even old Henk himself was still into some overclocking, will know I was hellishly defensive of AMD. Of course That was around 2001 or so maybe all the way up to 2004 perhaps. There wasn't a single AMD CPU or chipset I didn't get my hands on, even if it meant starving. Hopped on the Mobile Athlon-XP and ran what I think is SA's first sub-zero OC with DICE and a container made or rather stripped from cast iron (came from the leg of a table). AMD yeah, I lived and breathed AMD. However as you learn and get exposed the truth has a very sobering effect on one.

I'm excited because of the potential I see even this early. AMD can't help but get in their own way, but things are still looking up. They can only be better with 2nd gen Zen.
Anyway here goes
==============================================

* All overclocking is done via Overdrive, you can't change any performance features at all in the BIOS (on to that next) at all.

* BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system

* Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board. So debugging is a nightmare

* 6850K SKU (May not be final designation) is wait for it.... $300 roughly. That's 8 Cores and 16 Threads

* AMD's Hyper Threading is called SMU and it is damn good. The same efficiency as Intel's HT.

* Performance is really good, be it SuperPi, Cinebench, 3DMark etc, it's FPU performance is incredibly good and easily matching that of what Intel offers.

* Current performance is staggering even though it is limited to 2133MHz (as mentioned before) and NorthBridge Frequency is limited to 2400MHz

* There will be a nigher SKU than the 6850K, but it is a higher bin so it will certainly overclock better than 6850K and that may carry a premium price, but unlikely to be double.

* There's plenty of excitement from all board vendors about the platform, so we will see how it all pans out. (Especially with the hot mess that INTEL has in store for us H2 2017, that we can leave to another thread)

* For Gaming, the CPU is neck and neck with INTEL, even at low res where CPU bound.
================================================== ============

AMD is coming for em, NVIDIA and INTEL. 2017 is going to be a real kicker of a year as AMD will be able to provide premium performance at under $1,000 for the entire platform (CPU, board and VGA) whereas the equivalent from INTEL is about $1,000 just for the CPU.

If there's any questions I'll answer what I'm allowed to.

---

AMD essentially has no Chipset for the CPUs. It's an SOC of sorts so everything is just about contained within the CPU or at least the CPU package. That does simplify the board in some ways, but the worst part is that it takes away the small differences boards had between them. Right now there's literally no difference at all between any board (all of which are far too early to be relevant). Essentially all control is in AMD's hands and in the user hands for overdrive.

You can still access traditional BIOS for SATA config, Audio, boot sequence etc but that's it really. Even DRAM frequency you'll have to set inside the OS and reboot as I don't think you can change multi once the mem training is done. We will have to see.

Again there are still way too many bugs to iron out, but the performance is there so they must work to iron out the rest of it. There's too much of a spread right now between CPUs as I said
4.1GHz vs 5.2GHz on some. But progress is being made rapidly so we will see. Overclocking is only on the OC SKUs, but as we have seen from AMD, that's almost all of them.

Hört sich interessant an - wenn er sich das alles ausgedacht hat, dann hat er auf jeden Fall eine gute Fantasie.

Edit: Achso, gefunden über Reddit. Dürfte sicher bald die Runde zu den üblichen Verdächtigen machen.

[Onkel_Dithmeyer]

Gibt zwei/drei Punkte mit denen er sich nach meinem Kenntnisstand disqualifiziert...

[Dresdenboy]

Gibt zwei/drei Punkte mit denen er sich nach meinem Kenntnisstand disqualifiziert...

Ohne ihn jetzt über alles zu heben, hat The Stilt im AT-Forum diese Leaks sozusagen bestätigt.

Es gibt übrigens seit einem Weilchen noch weitere geleakte Benchmarks.

[Karli9]

Klingt erstmal sehr interessant und auch nicht zu abwegig. Mal sehen, wenn es mit der Märzveröffentlichung klappt, wie groß dann die Verfügbarkeit ist.

@onkel_Dittmeyer
Mit welchen 2/3 Punkten disqualifiziert er sich?

[Onkel_Dithmeyer]

AMD essentially has no Chipset for the CPUs.

"Need no" wäre richtig. Das mit dem BIOS wäre ebenfalls süberraschend. Die AM4-Boards die ich gesehen habe bisher haben einen dedizierten Chip. Vielleicht aber auch nur als Fallback für Stoney?

[BoMbY]

Es gibt übrigens seit einem Weilchen noch weitere geleakte Benchmarks.

Meinst Du das Blenchmark-Gedöns? Ansonsten ist mir nichts aufgefallen in letzter Zeit.

[amdfanuwe]

BIOS Chip ist doch nichts anderes als etwas Speicher mit ner Uhr drin. Darin ist die Startupsoftware für das Board und diverse Boardparameter gespeichert. Wie soll das denn Funktionieren, wenn das mit in der CPU wäre? Woher soll der Prozessor denn wissen, auf welchem Board er sich befindet und wie die Boardspezifische Hardware, Spannungsregler etc. richtig zu initialisieren ist?
Macht keinen Sinn. Ein BIOS Chip gehört auf das Board.
Bei fest verlöteten CPUs könnte ich mir noch vorstellen, dass die ein Flash im/auf dem Chip haben und vom Hersteller entsprechend bespielt werden.